Wabbit Wanch Design

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:06 am 
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Last updated March 13, 2017
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Alesis IO2 Audio Interface
Alesis io26 Firewire Interface - Leopard/Snow Leopard only

Audio Kontrol 1

Carillon MIDI 1x1Link

CME U2MIDI

Digidesign Eleven Rack
Digidesign Mbox Pro

Echo AudioFire 2
Echo AudioFire 4
Echo AudioFire 8 (firewire audio interface with MIDI ports)

Edirol FA-66
Edirol PCR-300
Edirol UA-25
Edirol UM-550

Emagic MT4

E-MU Xmidi 1x1 - Requires iFCB 2.4 or newer - Send Style: BLOCK.
EMU RomI/O

ESI MidiTerminal M4U
ESI Quatafire 610

Focusrite Saffire 6 - tested on 10.6.8
Focusrite Saffire LE
Focusrite Saffire Pro 40
Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 - Leopard/Snow Leopard ONLY
Focusrite 6i6
Focusrite Scarlett 8i6
Focusrite Clarett 8PreX - Tested OS X 10.10.4
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 - tested )S X 10.10.4

Komplete Audio 6

korg padKONTROL

iConnectMIDI
iConnect MIDI2+
iConnectivity MIO
iConnectivity MIO2

LogiLink USB Midi Cable

M-AUDIO UNO - Version 1 transparent body (perfect), Version 1 (opaque body) corrupts SYSEX, Version 2 (recalled, class compliant; not advised),
M-AUDIO Axiom - sometimes sporadic..
M-Audio MIDIMAN Midisport 1X1, 2X2, 4X4, 8X8 (these are the older versions of the current MIDISports called MIDIMAN)
M-Audio 8 x 8 (FastTrack Ultra)
M-Audio Keystation Pro 88
M-AUDIO PROFIRE 610 - tested on Snow Leopard only (works for some, not for others); failed on Leopard.
M-Audio ProFire 2626
M-audio Profire Lightbridge
M-Audio FastTrack Pro
M-Audio FW410 - Snow Leopard/Lion/Mountain Lion - Driver 1.10.2 works perfectly.

Mbox 2 Pro - tested with 10.5.8

Motu Traveler MK3
MOTU 8 Pre
MOTU Fastlane USB 2x2 - Not recommended for use on MacBookPro with USB 3.0 ports.
MOTU Ultralite mk3
MOTU Express XT - Must in MERGE ALL mode
MOTU 828mkII

Phonic Midi Hub

Presonus AudioBox USB - Leopard, Show Leopard ONLY
Presonus Firebox
Presonus FirePod/FP-10
Presonus 1818VSL

RME Fireface 400
RME Fireface 800 - It either works, or it don't. Once it fails, forget fixing it.
RME Babyface

Roland UM-3G
Roland UM-2 - fails SYSEX loopback test buts does transfer okay.
Roland Quad - Capture USB 2

USB to MIDI converter - Sunplus Technology Co., Ltd.

Tapco Link.MIDI 4x4

Tascam FW-1082
Tascam US-122
Tascam US-200
Tascam US-428
Tascam 1641
Tascam FW-1884

TC Electronic Impact Twin

Terratec Phase 88 Rack FW

Unknown USB to MIDI Cable - those $5 specials from Amazon or eBay READ!!!


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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 9:18 pm 
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I have a Edirol PCR-800, like the 300/500, but these are MIDI keyboard controllers. Even if they work, I am not sure they are fit for this purpose.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:47 am 
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I am very new to all of this, but wanted to share what I've found so far.

Got the FCB1010 (long story there - moral: DON'T buy these used without real certainty!)

Looked long and hard at MIDI interfaces, I wanted to start at the low end.

I got an iConnectivty 1 in 1 out mio. I contacted the company and they replied right away, telling me that yes, it was SYSEX compliant.
The loopback testing was... a little odd! On the very first pass, I got SYSEX TIMED OUT twice in a row. I then twiddled the SEND STYLE - L, S, and Single - and it then showed green checks.
Then I quit iFCB and restarted, left the default (SEND STYLE Fast). I then got a momentary interruption, went back a minute or two later and did the loopback test and.. it worked! All green. I've since found that if I try the loopback test right after I start it up, it shows SYSEX TIME OUT. But if I wait a minute or two, it works just fine.

I've subsequently managed to get it all working, so I conclude that this interface DOES work.

I have no idea what 95% of the rest of iFCB does! And not much more than 90% idea of the FCB1010 and MainStage either, but I'm getting there!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:37 am 
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When I talked to iConnectivity about SYSEX, I was told that yes, the MIO worked with SYSEX.

When I asked if it would work with the size that the FCB1010 wanted, i.e. 2,352 bytes, I got a different answer. They suggested I slow down the transfer, or do it in blocks, or rewrite the firmware on the FCB1010 so it doesn't need a stream of bytes that size. Which is about the same as saying don't buy a MIO for any serious SYSEX work.

When you see intermittent results, that's the driver in the MIDI interface having trouble processing all the data. Call it the 50/50 rule. Fifty percent of the time it will work just fine.

There's also a little oddity that I have noticed as well with either Apples core MIDI or the MIDI drivers for the interfaces. Some will be quite sporadic but at some point will just start to work perfectly and will continue to do so for "x" amount of time. Days, weeks, months, even years. Then at some point, the switch gets flipped the other way, figuratively speaking, and they refuse to work at all. No amount of fiddling will fix them. This generally happens after a OS update. Which is probably why Macs that are used in a recording studio tend to be locked into an OS and stay there.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:51 am 
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Interesting.

Okay, I will be on the lookout. For me the limitation is I am so green at this, I'm not sure I'd know a mil problem from an alligator! :) But I love learning it.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:56 pm 
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The thing to keep in mind is that NONE of us were born with MIDI know how. Every one of us had to learn it either by trial and error, or sheer good luck. I had a good friend who threw me in the MIDI deep end then would toss me a floaty vest just before I went down the last time... :lol:

The big stumbling block most hit is that they approach the problem from the wrong end. I.e. someone wants to control some device or software with the FCB1010 so they "program" the FCB1010.

The way to do it is the opposite. If you have something you want to control, you first investigate what it will "react" or "respond" to when it comes to MIDI. Once you know that, then you program the FCB1010 with that info and test it out. In many cases, companies put in "learn" modes which is supposed to make things easier but in fact rarely does. It works far better to have the MIDI clearly defined.

Thus you spend a lot of time wading through the poorly written MIDI implementation docs for everything from un-Ableton's Live to a Not-A-Boss RC-50. Once you've gone those those docs, you know what the FCB1010 will have to send to control "said" software/hardware.

What you'll find as well is that those MIDI implementation docs are rarely ever completely correct. They're generally written by some engineer from the first version of the proof of concept and rarely updated to show any changes made in the software or firmware. Doesn't matter if it's a major company like Yamaha or Boss/Roland, the docs only get you in the ballpark. It still can take a LOT of experimentation to get from the ticket gate to your seat.

Plus the guys who write the docs are not musicians, so they don't write like a musician, they don't think like one and they have trouble grasping at what a real musician tends to need. In some cases this is obvious from the MIDI Kitchen Sink approach they use to control their hardware/software.

Plus if you ask "tech" support to clarify some of the MIDI implementation, the answers you can get are laughable or outrageous (or just plain dumb). I know I've returned products from Roland/Boss/Focusrite/Yamaha and many others because they can't explain how their own external MIDI control works.

Mel


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:29 am 
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I have two questions if anyone knows the answer...

The first is will the iConnect Audio 4+ work with SYSEX? Their iConnect 2+ works fine so I'd like to assume it does, but I can't be sure and thought I'd ask here.

The second question is that I want to have the following inputs all going into one computer audio interface, that is compatible with SYSEX, that then goes into my macbook via one input... preferably thunderbolt!

Guitar
Microphone
FCB1010
iPad MIDI output (via USB cable)


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:37 am 
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omen2k wrote:
I have two questions if anyone knows the answer...

The first is will the iConnect Audio 4+ work with SYSEX? Their iConnect 2+ works fine so I'd like to assume it does, but I can't be sure and thought I'd ask here.

The second question is that I want to have the following inputs all going into one computer audio interface, that is compatible with SYSEX, that then goes into my macbook via one input... preferably thunderbolt!

Guitar
Microphone
FCB1010
iPad MIDI output (via USB cable)


The only people who would know if the iConnect Audio 4+ works with SYSEX would be iConnectivity themselves. I've talked to them about their 4+, 2+, MIO, and iConnectMIDI 1. While electronics are different in the ones with built in cables, they will all handle SYSEX. However, the 4+ and 2+ are far superior component wise and thru-put speeds.

I never recommend using any audio interface that has built in MIDI. On the surface it might seem convenient at the time, but there are limitations.

1. The traffic on the buss. MIDI fighting the audio, who gets the preference in the interface and who gets the increased latency? Impossible to do both at the same time.
2. If anything goes wrong with the audio or the MIDI you effectively have half a device. Most aren't worth the repair cost.
3. When you outgrow the device and need to expand, you end up tossing the MIDI and Audio. Good idea to buy for the future, not the present.
4. Component wise, in the audio interfaces with add on MIDI the circuitry is not even remotely in the same ballpark as a dedicated MIDI interface.
5. Generally MIDI interfaces with built in cables are not well advised for any serious MIDI work. Latency is too high.

Re your second question to have all stuff going into the computer via Thunderbolt, that's pretty much like driving a '63 Volkswagon on the Autobahn. You kind of overlooked what Thunderbolt is for. It's a high speed interface, uber USB really. Designed for 4K displays and high capacity storage devices. Moving thousands of bits of information in a big hurry is the name of the game.

On the other end of the spectrum, we have MIDI. A device designed in the 1990's, using a 1960's serial interface (which incidentally has better thru-put than USB 1 and some cases USB 2 because it's a dumb interface and doesn't daisy chain). But the protocol for MIDI is clearly defined in stone and regardless of the interface in use it will never go any faster than it did in the 1990's.

Audio works just fine with USB 2, even when recording and playing back a high track count with RME or Avid professional audio interfaces. Thus adding Thunderbolt to them doesn't do much more than add cost. And really the computer on the end of the pipeline affects speeds more than the interface any way.

Daisy chaining a bunch of dissimilar devices to Thunderbolt so there's only one cable is not a good idea. The best plan is giving each device it's own dedicated interface so it operates as efficiently as it can. Using a budget USB hub is a bad plan as well because the cheap hubs tend to chop up the signals to the point where data gets lost.

In the end, it's better to focus on device efficiency and not single cable convenience and cost.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:33 am 
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Mel- many thanks for such a thorough answer; guess I'll stick with my current iConnectivity MIDI2 and try to look for a dual audio to USB input then! :D


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